Singing Pig

Just been speaking with my accountant about this who is a bit sceptical.

"Are they really self employed??"

I understand many of us pay leafleters this way as sole trader, but who does this through LTD company?  I guess the IR are more likely to look into the status of the leafleters to see if we should be doing it through PAYE etc..

Anyone doing this successfully? (i.e. with approved accounts from the IR)

Regards

Rob

Rob,

Your accountant is right to be sceptical.

The borderline between "employment" and "self employment" is a vauge one, and leafleting often falls into the "employment camp".

You need to ensure your leafleters don’t look like employees or you can get hammered for tax and NI deduction. The same issue occurs if you are self employed or a ltd co. All I can say is work with your accountant - they should be able to help you decide what is relevant to YOUR circumstances and how to best ensure you don't end up with unwanted employees.

In terms of "approved accounts from the IR" there is no such thing! What you submit to HMRC is only reviewed formally if you are subject to an investigation. This may be an "aspect" inquiry (i.e. one thing) or a full blown inquiry into everything you are doing. Other than that they pretty much accept what you send to them unless it looks clearly incorrect, ie wrong box ticked.

Also whether the next guy got caught or not isn’t really relevant - its a question of ensuring the way you do things is within the rules, or as within as you can get when they are rather grey! It may well be the next guy has been doing it wrong for years but just hasn’t ever been checked properly by HMRC.

Hope that helps

Regards,

Thanks James, I understand the issues now.

I do get every leaflet dropper to sign an application form stating that they understand they are 'self employed' and that they must make their own arrangements for informing the IR where relevant.  Not sure if this is enough but I don't know what more can be done.  They are all paid cash, drawn from company bank account and I always get a receipt from them for every payment, with their name and address on.  I do not pay expenses as this is included in the delivery payment.  Will just have to keep my fingers crossed I guess!

Regards

Rob

Rob,

 I'm planning on using leafleting in my area to find BMV properties.  Would you be so good as to share some advice, and how you've made it as efficient as possible.  Questions I'd like to know include:

• What the leaflets say
• How often you drop to each property
• How many you drop a week
• How you find a leafletter and how much you pay them
• How you organise the leads from the leaflets: do you use an 0800 number?  And do you hire someone to receive the calls or just have them re-directed to your mobile?
• About how much does the leafleting and lead organisation cost you per month? 
• How many responses do you get per leaftet, and how many of these are going onto completed deals?

Thanks for your help,

 Ash

Hi Ash

Well most of my technique came from Rialtos manual plus advice from others over the last couple of years.

If you do a search here you should find some example wording of leaflets - focus the headline on what you are looking for e.g. stopping repossessions, rent-backs, refurbs etc..  To get a leaflet deliverer advertise in your local paper, I pay £30 per 1000 and pay £180 for printing of 20,000 A5 colour leaflets from paulclarkprinting.  You will get through loads of leaflet droppers so be prepared to re-advertise and keep a list of previous applicants.  I try to pick around 4 droppers to cover the whole area and base their area to be close to where they live.  

 I have an 0800 number diverted to my mobile and also an answer service if I can't take the call. callsure0870 I think.  I try to push out around 4000 leaflets per week, and re-do the same area every 6 weeks.

Using this technique I have bought 3 properties in the last year but have stopped marketing now due to lack of good mortgage products and uncertainty of market and will start up again next year.  I'm just about to start a new leaflet campaign to target buyers instead of sellers but this is early days.

Hope that helps!

Regards

Rob