Singing Pig

hi all,

i'd like to get an insight into how landlords who DON'T use agents perform the end-of-tenancy check-out procedure?  we have traditionally performed the check-out with the tenant physically present in the house.  takes about 30mins.  room by room, checking back to the original tenancy.  there and then, giving the tenant my view on any further cleaning, and any damage.  invariably, they tend to disagree.  i NEVER give the deposit back there and then.  i make the decuctions and send a cheque within 2 weeks. 

but, i am seriously considering not allowing the tenant to be present during my inspection.  instead, they will drop the keys into my (safe) key-store.  i will then inspect the prop, and go through the usual process.  i'm trialling this on 2 props in July.  first bit of tenant feedback has been that they want to be there at inspection. 

every tenant receives a letter (2 weeks before they leave) confirming:

-  the date the tenancy ends,

-  the period they remain responsible for rent and tenancy obligations,

-  that the deposit will be repaid promptly after the inspection,

-  that we require written confirmations that utilities have been paid before deposit repayment (we use the insurance TDS), as per the standard RLA AST

-  the standard of cleaning and presentation needed when handing back the prop

........ so, i'd like to canvass views:  how do YOU perform the tenant check-out?   all views gratefully received ..... i'd like to "go back to the drawing board" on this one! 

 cheers.

I would say it’s necessary for the tenant to be there especially where the inventory is concerned. Just like you needed them to be present at the check-in I cannot imagine why you don’t want them there at the checkout. This is a visual thing and how can they agree on what you say without being there. If they disagree whiles present, it’ll be worse when not there and then it’s your word against them, and in this case you have made them surrender the keys already, your responsibility.

Some naughty tenant could even insist they left the place cleaner than you say they did.

 thanks AA. 

you can't imagine why i might not want tenants there at check-out?  becasue i find that tenants argue over anything and everything ... it's a 'flashpoint' in the tenant-landlord relationship.  at the end of the day it's always, to some extent, your word against the tenants.  i can take photos and refer back to the original inventory ... so can they.  in my experience, EVERY tenant says that they left the place cleaner than you say they did ..... i have been staring at a shower with the tenant stood next to me and they deny it ....... !  i just find the whole thing to be a difficult half-hour .... and i wonder what the point is?!

it's not the same as the check-in scenario though.  it would not be possible ... at all ... to perform a check-in without the tenant being there ... how would you accept rent / hand-over keys / sign contract / sign inventory/condition report? 

an analagy might be when you check out of a hotel room ... the hotel doesn;t send someone up to the room to check it.  if they find any damage, they charge your card with it ....... simple?! 

just chewing the fat with this one .........

Although I am an agent, so a little different to a private landlord, the principles are the same.

A fortnight before the tenants are due to leave we send them an information sheet with a covering letter. It says things like cancel standing orders, we make sure the place is clean before they move in and things checked like all light bulbs are working.

We tell them to return the keys to our office, and when they have done this they are stating that they are happy with the condition of the property and that, other than wear and tear, it is in a good state of repair and clean. We particularly highlight the cooker and fridge, saying both need to be cleaned and the latter defrosted and door left ajar.

They are also told that no black bags are to left by the bin (the dustmen won't take them). Lastly, if there are any maintenance issues, please advise us immediately.

If there is every any query, the information sheet is pure gold as we say why didn't you tell us, or do, x, y, or z like the information sheet says. 

thanks DavidA .... i'll bear in mind that by returning the keys they are stating that they are happy with the prop .... good idea about specifically asking if there are any maintenance issues.  by the way, if you do have to deal with extra cleaning or arrange any repairs, do you charge an admin fee (as the agent) for doing that work?  or do you simply pass on the actual costs with no added margin (% or a fixed £)?

Cleaning - we have a local cleaning company to sort out any issues (despite the information sheet, it tends to concentrate on dirty cookers - always check oven/internal grill - or fridge not defrosted and door left ajar).

We haven't physically checked tenants in for a few years now. There is an independent inventory clerk (a retired civil servant) who does the inventory/condition report and his brief is to carefully note make, model and serial number of all electrical goods, plus the CH boiler (if one). He also notes where the fuse box is and the main water stop kock (the website software changes the true spelling of this word to asterisks if the letter "o" or number 0 is used). The location of water, gas and electric meters  are noted and readings taken where appropriate,  We then go on the internet and download the instructions for all appliances.

The tenants then attend the office and besides paying the monies they sign the tenancy agreement, sign receipt of the Deposit s213, inventory (plus a copy), instructions and keys. They sign that they will return the copy inventory within seven days noting any differences found. If not returned, the original is deemed to be correct (we've been sued on this and won). To be sure, if not returned, we send a reminder letter after a week giving a further seven days to return it. (And we still get tenants - usually the ones that don't return the copy inventory - saying that the check out is wrong because the tear/burn mark etc was there when they moved in)

Contractors are charged at cost and a copy of their invoice enclosed with the account of their deposit. We charge an admin fee of £23.50 for every contractor we have to instruct (which probably does not cover the cost of staff time etc  in arranging and accounting for the payment to the contractor).

One thing is certain, the more thorough the documentation and procedures and move-in time (and they could be there for a few years, with numerous changes of staff in the mean time), the easier the check out is. 

 

David A:

Although I am an agent, so a little different to a private landlord, the principles are the same.

A fortnight before the tenants are due to leave we send them an information sheet with a covering letter. It says things like cancel standing orders, we make sure the place is clean before they move in and things checked like all light bulbs are working.

We tell them to return the keys to our office, and when they have done this they are stating that they are happy with the condition of the property and that, other than wear and tear, it is in a good state of repair and clean. We particularly highlight the cooker and fridge, saying both need to be cleaned and the latter defrosted and door left ajar.

They are also told that no black bags are to left by the bin (the dustmen won't take them). Lastly, if there are any maintenance issues, please advise us immediately.

If there is every any query, the information sheet is pure gold as we say why didn't you tell us, or do, x, y, or z like the information sheet says. 

 

You do all that, and the tenant STILL turns round and says they weren't told anything. We get it all the time. Sadly, tenants think that all landlords and agents are liars, and immediately get on the defensive; in the process, turning themselves into hypocrites.
 

David, this is very informative. Thanks. You obviously are one of the good agents. By the way, where are you based, locationwise?