Singing Pig

Our very recent outstanding success winning 5 out of 5 Enforcement Notice appeals for a recreational fishery and camping/caravanning site at Onehouse in Mid Suffolk has reminded me of another little point that may interest SPs.

Enforcement appeals are an EXCEPTION to the rule that you must have a Local Hearing or Public Inquiry to try to claim costs against a planning authority.

If the authority has acted unreasonably in issuing the notice, you can claim appeal costs when you win.

Whether you get a costs award - and if so, how much - is still at the discretion of the Planning Inspector, but you can certainly ask.

The Basic Planning Law forum is still open to questions from SPs. Come on guys 'n' gals - what do you want to know about ?

Is it possible for a site to have two different planning permissions? I have an industrial site on the south coast and we are applying for a mixed use employment site - permission looks likely. However, we will soon have built up enough marketing evidence to prove that the current industrial site is unlettable which under local policy would allow us to consider non-employment use. If we were then successful with a residential application what would that status be of the previous permission?

Also can the Council take into account extant permissions and cite them as a reason for refusal?

Any thoughts welcomed.
 

 

 

Yes, it certainly is !  In fact you could have a site with TEN current valid permissions and, until one of them was implemented, they would all remain valid until they expired under their time limit.

Even if one was implemented, it would not invalidate any of the others unless it was an incompatible Change of Use or its implementation made the implementation of any others physically impossible or incompatible. (Then only those incompatible ones would lapse.)

e.g. If, on the same site, you had permission for gravel extraction, and implemented a permission to build a supermarket on the site, obviously gravel extraction becomes impossible with that building on the land surface and the gravel extraction permission would be effectively displaced by implementation of the one for construction of the supermarket.

But on the other hand, if you had gravel extraction, and implemented another for parking lorries on the land, that probably would not wipe out the gravel extraction permission, which is still physically capable of implementation if you simply stop parking the lorries there.

No, the council can NOT take into account extant planning permissions. But it can take into account the zoned use of the land, and whether it is suitable for what you now propose.

Your residential application must be determined on its own merits. That will include evidence of unsuccessful attempts at marketing for the industrial development. Make sure that evidence is absolutely fireproof !

Trevor

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm surprised I don't see more sites with multiple planning permissions - a site with flexible development options must appeal to developers.

You're welcome.

You don't see too many multi-permission sites because most developers specialise in one kind of development - residential, commercial, industrial, whatever.

What a multi-permission would give you, of course, is a wider range of potential developers who might be interested in the site.

But most people, if they can get residential permission, decide to quit while they are well ahead !

I'm pleased that quite a number of members have told me they've learned useful information from this thread.

A couple have asked me what my signature paragraph means, "because they can easily fill in a planning application form".

As many have found to their cost,anyone CAN fill in a planning application form. It is indeed easy. But WINNING the planning permission is rather different ! And the majority of refused applicants simply have NO IDEA of what it takes to win a planning appeal.

Trust me ! I've seen their amateur efforts and the consequences when, having seriously messed up long-term their chances of winning the planning permission they want by getting a refusal followed by a rejected planning appeal, they THEN come to us wanting us to pull their nuts out of the fire on No Win No Fee terms !

Anyone submitting a planning application - and in particular anyone thinking of lodging a planning appeal - needs to ensure that they understand at least the basics of planning law.

Because, if they don't even understand what determines whether or not permission should be available for their land, and if so for what, what chance have they got of successfully arguing that they should have it ? !

 Putting it another way, I reckon I can fly a Boeing 747 because I've seen other people do it and have read a bit about it. It doesn't look that difficult. Anyone want to come up in one with me ?

(No, not YOU Clottie - you could probably FLY the damned thing !)

In a lot of cases getting planning permission really is quite simple. Two vital things anyone thinking of applying for permission should do:

1) Read the Local Plan from cover to cover and pull out all relevant policies. Ensure your proposal fully complies with each of them.

2) Talk to the planners from day one. Don't even think about submitting an application until you have had significant pre-application discussions. Remember to work WITH the planners and not against them.

So many people go about planning the wrong way. They dream up what they want on a site, and then battle the planning system for it. Just work backwards from the Local Plan.

I agree with Mr LPA regarding planning appeals though... get expert advice or don't bother appealing.

Most of what ianwc says is certainly true.

But I now feel quite aggrieved that we haven't won a "simple" planning permission in the 18 years since 1989 !

We've had to fight like hell for every permission we've won, and over 98% of them have been won on appeal against refusal. (Should I become paranoid, I wonder ?)

Mind you, clients don't bring the simple straightforward ones forward for a No Win No Fee project ... they tend to present absolute impossibilities that they want No Win-No Fee terms for ! [:'(]

My personal view of Pre-Application Discussions is that they are usually a waste of time because most planning officers have a dog-in-the-manger traffic warden attitude and are intent only on obstructing our clients' aspirations.

But we are currently trying pre-application consultation again with a development of 9 dwellings near London and will report back later if I get pleasantly surpised.