Singing Pig

Hi

My brother is converting flats a vic terrace into 4 flats and he is paying 100k for everything inlcuding windows double glazed.I have had a right jolly ride as I have been converting a house into 2 flats and am it is not finished yet also at the same time having a loft conversion costing 25k with a dormer.So far I have paid the builder 18k for the conversion he wants another 32k to finish and thats not including the plumber,plasterer,electrician,windows, and bathrooms kitchens or flooring provided.Now I have taken him off of the job as I don't have the funds to pay him. I feel I've I have been on a roller coaster learning curve. He didn't want to give me receipts for anything now I have another builder who is going to give me the reciepts for all of the building material and will charge me 6k for 8 weeks work. I just don't know much labour is for a builder per day or per week .Do you know ? How much exactly would a new stud wall with a lobby formed cost to put up in materials?

I'm in a real mess at the moment and need to work out if I'm going to have the money to finish this. The builder hasn't given me any reciepts for the dormer windows or the velux windows he has put in but I feel its my property and my windows so why wouldn't I have the recipets in case anything goes wrong with them.

Hope you can give me some advice I do have lots of questions

I''m paying 13500 for the plumber

3500 plasterer

6000 for the electrician including

  alarms

please help cazz

before you go any further, have you had any visits from Building Regs  - if you  have not, and the soundproofing is not up to specification it will not get approval.   if you dont have approval now it will be impossible to sell. 

This builder sounds like he may have cut corner, as well as not wanting to give receipts.   Contact building control. 

I agree wholeheartedly about finding out where you're at with building control.  You should also get a copy of the architects spec for the soundproofing and make sure that it's been followed.  These are pretty standard installations now, and most builders now have experience with them, so I wouldn't be unduly concerned on this point.

From the sounds of it, if you can't afford to throw another £32k at this, then you've probably not got the money to finish this to the proper standards at the moment.

You haven't given any details of the mortgage on the property, but one option would be to finish it informally and rent the two flats out until your finances look a bit rosier. 

As for the receipts, this is a grey area, and depends a lot on the nature and terms of your contract.  Receipts for materials often contain commercially sensitive information such as discount levels etc. and you are not automatically entitled to this.  He should have given you a receipt as the main contractor which covers your audit trail. 

Hi

Yes we had the visit from Building Re. gs they gave the details for the soundproofing etc.I'm in a dilema at the moment as I have disputed with my builder what he wanted to charge me half way through the job as the price has changed and he didn't update the spec until later on.Its been very badly managed so I had to tell him I didn't have the kind of money he wanted for the job.He wanted to charge me 50k for making a house into two flats without the plumber,plasterer,electrician,windows,kitchens and bathrooms . Flooring or tiling fitting only.I have now done some more research and realised that average flats are around 25k all in.He wanted that without the above mentioned things. He has now walked off of the job and has not finished the loft which is near finished bar the staircase rail and spindles and the bathroom fitted and plugs put on. The final payment for the loft is 2500 so not sure how much this work will cost to complete.

The flats have been started on but are not complete nowhere near , he has been paid 9k so far and to date says I owe him a further 9k for the work that has been carried out already.

I don't want to not pay somebody but I have looked at all the jobs that have been completed and half completed and I don't feel that the work should cost this much.For example a new stud wall accross a room that is 11'3 in width I have been charged for this new stud wall with a small lobby going into the next room 1250, I really think from this charge that the other jobs set out in the spec are way overpriced and as the quantity surveyor is a friend of the builders its more like he's doing a favour for the builder and not the client.

I have learnt a lot and would do things a whole lot differently next time I would definatly shop around a whole lot more however I am the type of person who normally does anyway the reason why I didn't is because the builder is my cousin and I trusted him.

I would never use family again or a friend and would get as many quotes as possible.

I need some ideas from somebody on what they feel it should cost to convert a 3 bed house into 2 flats. I have also had the loft done which has cost just over the 25k mark for this I had several quotes and he quoted me less to start then added on stuff.

I don't know what it costs for a plumbers work on this type of job or an electrician but I have paid 6k for the electrician which includes alarms to both flats and 12500 k for the plumber including radiators and showers and boilers , all copper. I do still think this is not a good price well not that competative.If anyone has some up to date ideas please let me know.

I am now finding another builder and am waiting for some more quotes.

I am going to get my kitchens from Howdens at trade price if anyone else knows anywhere else to go please let me know.

thanks carolina

sorry to hear about your difficult situation. your thoughts about using friends or family echo my own even tho i break it every now and then.

anyhow, you may find the following website to be useful for rough guides for a job. i must emphasise that not all jobs are listed but there are enough to give you insights....

 
http://www.whatprice.co.uk/tools/ 

Great thread, like some others I've just found it on a search.

Firstly thanks to BTS King for the stage-by-stage guide on the first page. I had a little knowledge on this having spoke to builders and done my research, but this serves as a great reference for anyone doing this for the first time like myself.

I've just gained planning approval (I'm delighted, as it was at first attempt despite not being over-confident our plans would satisfy the, sometimes overly fussy, highways regarding parking spaces - we have one on-street to the front, and we plan to open one up at the rear for the ground floor/basement flat) to convert an Edwardian four-storey terrace into 2 flats. We're just drawing up plans for Building Regs approval so this thread has been a great insight.

There is an aspect of converting a house into flats that nobody on this thread has seemed to touch upon yet, which I could do with some advice on if anyone has knowledge on this area.
Steve L touched upon it, but it seems he was just starting his process.

And that's the mortgage aspects of converting.

I intend to borrow from money on the house (or whichever term people use) to pay for the conversion. Now I've been told that my mortgage lender may not allow me to convert into flats as the mortgage was agreed on the house as a whole. I get the idea that generally, people borrow money for 'home improvements', convert, then re-mortgage to two separate units with a different lender. Is this correct? And will my mortgage lender interrogate me and be suspicious of what I need an extra £40,000 for?

Also, I'm aware that I will need to split the leasehold. Any advice on this would also be helpful :-)

To go into a bit more detail about the exact intended use for the flats. I own the house with my Aunt but I live elsewhere. She intends to live in one (for the long-term), and the other will be rented out. We don't plan to sell anytime soon.

Any help and advice would be much appreciated. I'm only as far as the planning approval stage on mine, but if anyone has any questions I can help with, then I'm more than happy to share my (limited) experience.

I extended and converted a three bed semi into 2No.one bed and 2No.two bed flats during 2004-2005.From gaining permission to completion and tenanted took just over 1year but there was a bit of a hold up with planning,so one year would be a realistic time scale for a similar project.

A neighbour is an amateur film buff and recorded this short film of work in progress.

                                            Visit: www.hemelmoviemakers.org.uk  (go to films then click Bill's Project)

Before starting the works, I visited Building Control for advice on the then relatively recent requirement for soundproofing and the inspector suggested a company who manufactured a floor system for this type of construction which I did.A design was approved by B.C. and I followed the specification to the letter because by this time I was well aware of the severity of sound testing and the cost which was £1000 each time for the four flats.

The works went very smoothly,perhaps because I was project managing but more likely I have the respect of great tradesmen who I can turn to.You must be confident of anyone's ability who you employ as well as your own, as mistakes can be very costly.

So when it came to testing at the last knockings I was reasonably confident of a pass but when the recordings were analysed I received good and bad news.The original side of the property passed but the new build failed, simply because B.C. had approved the specification for the internal leaf blocks for the building as adequate when in fact they weren't dense enough.The Impact Test passed on both the new and the old but the Airborne Test failed on the new side.Basically,an unacceptable transmission passed through the block work,down the cavity and into the flat below,even though the cavity was 3" wide and full of Dritherm.

We had even dot/dabbed the face of the block work with 15m.m. "Soundblock" plasterboard prior to skimming and had properly isolated the boards from the floor!!

When I approached the floor system specialist they didn't want to know as their part had passed and I didn't want to fall out with B.C. as I needed the job to be signed off.Remedial works were carried out and after a re-test it passed (just).

I would certainly take on this type of project again as it's probably one of the most lucrative ways of adding value to property but it's essential you work out reasonably accurate costings(there should be enough of a buffer to cover contingencies and still come out with a very healthy profit).I actually went £40K over my original estimate but I hadn't allowed for fencing and landscaping which was a planning condition.

Most importantly, you engage an architect familiar with this type of conversion as well as qualified tradesmen to carry out the works,not to mention your honesty with you own capabilities.

These flats now form part of my rented portfolio which is mortgaged under one title.An owner of property wouldn't issue a lease to himself.

Hope the above is of interest.............Bill