Singing Pig

 Thanks BTS King for taking the time to write that post.

Much appreciated.

Hi Pound,

I've done quite a lot of renovation work and indeed conversion of houses/bedsits into flats.

Set aside at least 5k for structural work and sound proofing.

£1000 for skips and clearance.

Re-wiring each flat will cost around £1500 each.

Central heating and running you hot and cold pipings will be about £2500 per flat tops.

Drainage and plumbing, soil pipes etc £1500

Depends if your walls all need re-plastering, I reckon about £1500 per flat.

New Bathroom with tiles, materials about £500, labour around £1500, so that would be about 4K.

Kitchens at least £3k per flat.

Joinery, skirting boards, doors, architrives etc about £1000 per flat.

Decoration around £1000 per flat.

Carpets, lino, underlay about £1000 per flat.

In total I reckon around £35 to £40 K.

The price for soundproofing, and if fact the entire overall figure you've quoted sounds like cloud cuckoo land to me - the reduction levels specified in Part E have recently been amended, by halving the amount of residual noise which is allowed to be transferred.  Whilst in robust details form the cost of achieving this may on paper look quite low, the sheer labour intensity involved in now sealing every single joint in order to pass the pre-completion test will make your costs much higher.  To do a conversion properly will always cost you at least £35k a flat; and that's without employing a main contractor.  If you genuinely think you can do a conversion for the price you're saying then I'll gladly give you a job!

Hi BTS King,

I was giving the prices on my experiences. I'm not talking about putting marble/granite etc, just basic, clean, tidy flats with central heating, white bathroom suites, white tiles, basic howdens kitchens, magnolia walls, white ceilings and lower range carpets. The price was with me contracting everything out, and getting the individual tradesman. In fairness, some of these guys have done a lot of work for me, and I can get jobs done at a reduced rate.

Not done soundproofing for a couple of years now, but we are due to start a conversion in a few months. Basically converting a large property into 6 flats. I reckon I can get the job done for about 120k. The other option that I'm looking into, would be to demolish the building and build more flats if possible, say 9 to 12. Architect is just drawing up the plans. Again I'm not looking at luxury, top of the range flats, just clean and modern. According to one of the builders I have used, it is easier to rebuild then convert!

He's right - newbuild is much much easier.  Just make sure your architect discusses section 106 obligations with the council at an early stage, as these often render brownfield development unviable.  If he looks uncomfortable when you mention this phrase to him, get yourself another architect.  A good one with experience in negotiating 106's is worth his weight in gold, a bad one with turn the best deal into a complete dog.

I think our difference in costings highlights the fragility and unpredictability of costings on conversions, I tend to overhaul the entire building (ie. new roof, drainage, eggshell blast, repoint, landscaping, the works) - I think this is where the difference comes from, however I don't like to ever leave anything to chance!  I think we'd both agree its impossible to cost a conversion accurately without decent working drawings.

You really are in for a treat when your architect gives you the latest standard spec for soundproofing!

Hi BTS King,

Thanks for the tip on the 106 obligations.

I agree with you on your second point, it is impossible to give an accurate cost for conversions without working to drawings. The quality of finish to the apartment can completely vary in price, depending on the standard and market you are aiming at.

I hope I will not have to go down the route of soundproofing, because if I do get the planning, I'm led to believe that the block and beam floors in new build will counter the problem nicely. In your opinion, how much would you budget for new build, per apartment?  I was thinking from scratch about 30k to 40k per apartment. 12 apartments £360,000 to £400,000. The building will be L shaped and made out of artificial stone. The flats will be done to a reasonable standard, to hopefully be rented out.

If I get the planning, my architect recommended putting the project out to tender.

My last conversion was about £50K per unit. I used a contractor and though the work was managed well in the end -I'd prefer to use trades and manage the next project with the help of my archetect/surveyor

£30-40K build costs per flat is quite ambitious! Unless you're talking studios.I think up North build costs are about £80-85 per SQF and in the South £100-120 per SQF. So based on a 550 SQF appartment you'd be looking at about £46,750 in the North and £66,000 in the South.

If you do put your project to tender make sure you specify every detail as much as you can - down to the thickness of the plaster .

Hi Ruth,

Thanks for that, much appreciated.

At £45,750 per apartment that would make things quite tight, the area I am dealing in is not the most expensive by any stretch.

I was perhaps thinking as an option, of maybe getting a contractor to do the groundwork, drainage and shell. Then I could contract out the interior work myself, and do the work the required standard, a standard that has proved to be adequate in other properties.