Singing Pig

Chillinlong

it may surprise people to know that I do have the Koran on my list to read like you say I want a good copy not one that has been distorted over the years like the bible has. I have never read any of Salman Rushdies work. I just said his view of Jihad may be somewhat different to yours.

You make some interesting points but ones I am not sure you have thought about too much.

1) if our destiny is predetermined why bother with anything.

2) if god is merciful what is all that about punishment? Does the Kopran actually mention anyone who went to Hell as the Bible doesnt really.

3) If everyone is 33 in heaven but a day is 80 years and Man has been on the planet about a million years doesnt that mean some people there are 67

4) I love your concept of the miraculous sea rescue. If one did survive what evidence is there that god did or did not have a hand in it. What about the Titanic springs to mind. If ones destiny is predetermined having a boat load of people suffer a horrible death in a cold sea doesnt sound too merciful to me

have a good day

Mr H

Ps Im still not convinced of the need for Sharia Mortgages. It would appear that in th UK religious beliefs thankfully have to heed the law of the land at least as far as Christians are concerned and that should be true fo all religions. I refer to Gay rights. Not being gay myself I cant see what the fuss is about but now its the law we have to respect it.

Mr helpful:

Chillinlong

it may surprise people to know that I do have the Koran on my list to read like you say I want a good copy not one that has been distorted over the years like the bible has. I have never read any of Salman Rushdies work. I just said his view of Jihad may be somewhat different to yours.

You make some interesting points but ones I am not sure you have thought about too much.

1) if our destiny is predetermined why bother with anything.

2) if god is merciful what is all that about punishment? Does the Kopran actually mention anyone who went to Hell as the Bible doesnt really.

3) If everyone is 33 in heaven but a day is 80 years and Man has been on the planet about a million years doesnt that mean some people there are 67

4) I love your concept of the miraculous sea rescue. If one did survive what evidence is there that god did or did not have a hand in it. What about the Titanic springs to mind. If ones destiny is predetermined having a boat load of people suffer a horrible death in a cold sea doesnt sound too merciful to me

have a good day

Mr H

Ps Im still not convinced of the need for Sharia Mortgages. It would appear that in th UK religious beliefs thankfully have to heed the law of the land at least as far as Christians are concerned and that should be true fo all religions. I refer to Gay rights. Not being gay myself I cant see what the fuss is about but now its the law we have to respect it.

Hello again Mr Helpful,

Like I said I do not have all the answers I am just merely trying to point out some issues I felt were related to what you was talking about.

In response to your questions:

1) Our destiny is predetermined as in "God knows and mankind does not" so I am not sure if you already know your destiny and want to stop doing anything right now.

2) If there was no punishment do you think every society or most would have love, respect, discipline and honour etc?

3) Your age does not change in heaven.

4) If you need evidence do some reading and check up on the history. The other part of the question, I have already answered a similiar type in the previous post.

Have a great day god willing!

Chillinlong

PS You say your not convinced with the Sharia mortgages but are convinced with gays laws etc to whereas you respect and do not question this but you question the sharia mortgages, I am not sure what you are trying to say here. The basis of my points is we should just respect everyones beliefs and let them do whatever they want as it does not affect you.

Hi all

I am with the Atheist's here although I think Mr H has made the argument a lot better than his opponents

I went to a Christian School and instantly realised religion has plenty of rules that hold back people and few that are actually in human beings interest. Mr H asked what was the benefit of a Sharia Mortgage. I wonder what the benefit of religion to mankind is. Has it brought us prosperity? No has it brought us love? No has it brought us Peace? definitely NO so why does anyone give it such importance when the only benficiaries are the religious leaders who are intent on conning people with half truths and lies. The pressure on children at my school to accept blind faith was terrible and that was what made me think. If they had to push it that hard it must be bad.

I know there are many faiths on this forum and everyone is entitled to belong to any faith so I am not trying to offend anyone.

Chillinlong

Can I have some of what you are on. You dont really believe all that heaven stuff do you You sound too intelligent for that.

I agree faiths should not be imposed on children. There are too many people who say whatever.

You also asked the benefits of religion, an example the people who were guided away from the tryanny ruling of Pharaoh through religion. Religion can mean so many different ways, I prefer it to be called life or system, another whole topic here now.

Sometimes you have to try and not argue just for the sake of looking for every single point to point out and look at the wider picture with an open mind to see if it makes sense. Again as I have previously said you will only know by reading some materials that are easily accesible for anybody out there about history and religion.

Yes, I do believe there is a heaven and hell out there otherwise I would not have said it. You say if I am intelligent, what evidence is there to prove that there is not? Another point you can go and freely research "Seven platforms in heaven" and scientifically "There are seven layers of the earths atmosphere".

All the best.

Chillinlong

I am not sure mentioning tyrany of Pharoes is a good example when you consider the brute force and violence used to spread the word of Islam or for that matter the contempt the quran holds for women who are classed as inferior to men and the belongings of man. Was it not true that one of Mohammeds wives was only 6 when he married her.

Just because you cant disprove something doesnt mean it could be right. If I said there was something miles out in space which no one could detect or see with the most powerful telescope does not prove that it doesnt exist so whilst one cannot prove the existance of heaven or God to be false you have to admit it stands on very shaky ground. I asked my teachers at school where heaven and hell were. One teacher told me heaven was up above and hell was down below so I asked where it was if we were in Australia and got a detention

The treatment of all people by religion (not just Islam) especially women is despicable

Sheepy:

The treatment of all people by religion (not just Islam) especially women is despicable

Massive

With coments like that I am not surprised to see you have spent much time fighting. Most of it fighting to save your own ass I should think

Chillinlong

My studies of the Koran are showing interesting reading

http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/index.html

 I dont want to pick on Islam as I am sure I can find equally weird pieces of text in any religion.

From my interpretation of the Koran I take it a woman would not really be able to buy a property on her own without her husbands permission which would make a true Sharia mortgage illegal in this country under the equality laws

Sheepy:

Chillinlong

I am not sure mentioning tyrany of Pharoes is a good example when you consider the brute force and violence used to spread the word of Islam or for that matter the contempt the quran holds for women who are classed as inferior to men and the belongings of man. Was it not true that one of Mohammeds wives was only 6 when he married her.

Just because you cant disprove something doesnt mean it could be right. If I said there was something miles out in space which no one could detect or see with the most powerful telescope does not prove that it doesnt exist so whilst one cannot prove the existance of heaven or God to be false you have to admit it stands on very shaky ground. I asked my teachers at school where heaven and hell were. One teacher told me heaven was up above and hell was down below so I asked where it was if we were in Australia and got a detention

The treatment of all people by religion (not just Islam) especially women is despicable

Hello again,

I notice this debate is totally one way whereas I am not asking any questions because I respect what everyone else wants to believe in but more questions are being asked but I can only answer so much as I am not totally knowledgable so I will try my best.

This is why I say go and read the books yourself and then you are in a better position to understand instead of coming back and keep asking me questions as I do not know all the answers but it is out there if you do your research otherwise we will be discussing this for ever.

The example I tried to imply was for example when Moses struck the ground and the sea split for the children of israel to escape from Pharoah, I believe this was religion not magic. Again, when you mention islam is spread by brute and force etc you are talking of peoples actions, I am talking about islam in general ie the koran as said in the previous posts.

You are absolutely right that Mohammed (PBUH) probably did marry a girl of his friend who was 6 years old at the time and then moved to his house at 9 years old, this I do not know why therefore I cannot understand this fully although I intend to find out but you probably can find out if you also do your research so I cannot answer this question. A whole another topic.

I am sorry to hear you got detention for asking questions in class.

With regards to women, before islam was revealed in Arabia the women had no such rights and were treated very badly and like slaves etc. Islam was revealed which introduced rights for women for the first time ever there for example, men are now supposed to look after the women and the men have to spend their money on them not the other way around. Also introduced rights in divorces etc for example 50% share of wealth I could go on and on. As I understand it women are very important in islam and we have the utmost respect for them which is not what you see in some cultures, this is why I said culture and religion are two different things.

Like I say I do not know all the answers and I wish I could answer them all but I suggest you go and find out from various sources on the internet etc and if you are quite happy with what you believe in then there is no argument as you should be content with what you know.

Mr Helpful

I had a quick look at the link and did not have a proper read as I am happy with what I already know and I only look at various sources that I believe are authentic for further information. In other words you will always find conflicting materials out there but believe in what your heart says is what I would say.

I try not to get too technical ie sharia law etc because this is again a commitees (peoples actions) set of rules based on islam and this can vary all over the world.

I thank you for your debates.

All the best god willing!