Singing Pig

Well I for one wouldnt dream of paying £5000 plus vat for a 2 day course, that is a grown mans working wage for a year, when you put it into perspective,

 I have made money out of property out of reading this free website, okay give Andy his due he did motivate me to buy more, but I would probably have bought more anyway,

If his book was all that good and his website that he charges people £40 plus vat  a month was up to scratch then people wouldnt have to spend a years wages on a course, they should have got all the info from him already, it was promised in his book that we would get the info for free, but oh no , once he had lured us in then out pops all the extras.

the people on the course is there so that he can make another money spinner, a DVD that he told his members would be available, so it is £5000 plus vat for the privaledge of appearing on his DVD,

anything that any property investor needs to know can be found on this site for free, if they cant find the info then they can ask , and someone on here will definetly know the answer

WealthCoach:

Why do you all have such a problem with people making money? ...

(In my experience, the more you pay for tuition / coaching, the more likely you are to use that knowledge / support)

I warned Andy when we were talking about him writing this book, that by making himself more public, he was running the risk of people Andy-bashing.  But I'm sure he consoles himself that the majority of people who take action and change their lives by doing what he talks about, like him well enough.

Wealthcoach,

People have problem with people who make money by RIPPING OFF others. Search on SP for a company called Inside Track and see what I mean. Charging 30x£5k for 2 days = £150k is plain greedy. GREEDY. I have no problem Andy making money, but this is profiteering. Refer again to IT postings on SP.

By virtue of the fact that you are on his website and by the above posting, you know Andy 'well' and pre-book. Sure his actoins have let himself up for "Andy-bashing" as you call it. But its his greed, not wiriting the book thats done that. I bought a "how to" manual on property for several hundred quid and have applied it and reccommend it to others. The guy who wrote it probably prints it for £10. Do I have a problem with it? No. Because I consider it fair exchange for his knowledge.

And as for the more you pay for coaching/tuition. Its not the money but the drive and inclination of the person who attends the course and not the money. Even I know that and I'm not a 'life coach'.

Nigel M

You certainly need to be delivering something VERY special to charge £5,000 for a 2-day seminar, with 30 people attending.

Someone once bought our Land Profits System and then started running seminars based on it, and explaining it personally to others. The cheeky so-and-so charged less than £500 for the day, and he never had more than 5 or 6 attending. And I reckon that is the maximum you can give personal attention to.

Good heavens, the racing tipster I have referred to only charged £495.00 for a one day seminar based at a very tasty hotel with nice food and drink included. He would have up to 50 at a time. His sales pitch included an offer of a full refund if you've decided by 11.30 that it's not good value. (It was virtually impossible to do that at 11.30!)

We're looking at 5 TIMES what he charged, with just one seminar a month generating £1.8million a year gross ! More than most people can ever make from property deals. (I'm clearly in the wrong game too. You'd be a long time making that kind of money from planning consultancy !)

I think we would be very interested to hear in DETAIL from someone who has been on this seminar - not generalisation like "It was a load of ****", but exactly what it covered, how much of it was padding (there is ALWAYS some padding in seminars !) , whether or not it was good value and why. 

I'm also still waiting for a response from Andy about supplying a hardcopy of his sales pitch claiming multi-millionsaire status in 7 months, so that I can ask ASA to check out that claim. (Be sure he knows EXACTLY what is being said on here.)

Well, I've heard from Andy Shaw - but, unfortunately, NOT saying "Yes, of COURSE I'll send you a hard copy of my sales pitch so that you can ask the ASA to verify my claims. I'll be glad to do so, because everything I say is true and checkable."

Instead, what I've got is a standard followup to his original offer of the first 5 chapters of his new book FREE of charge. It says ............

"This is a important message from Andy Shaw.

I wanted to follow up with you now that you have downloaded and (hopefully) read the first 5 chapters of my new book:  "Money For Nothing And Your Property For Free"

NOTE: If you haven't yet downloaded and read the first 5 chapters then you can do so here:
http://www.propertyinvestmentsecrets.co.uk/5chapters/dl/

As you probably know my book is currently NOT for sale (but soon will be again... full details below)

LET ME EXPLAIN
After the initial launch in just before December 2006 we had to stop selling "Money For Nothing And Your Property For Free" - because we simply took so many orders. (Oh really ? I thought that was the whole point of marketing a book ? ? ? Wonderful sales is hardly a good reason for stopping selling it !)

The same thing happened in February, and again in April.(What went wrong in January March and May, then ?)

It's not even a slight exaggeration to say it turned my office and staff's worlds upside down dealing with the
literal avalanche of orders. (Poor souls ! Have you ever heard of business MANAGEMENT, and temporarily employing more staff to cope with the "avalanche" ? It is hardly rocket science wrapping up a book to send to a purchaser, so little training is required - 30 minutes should do it.)

Also I wanted to ensure that I was delivering TRUE value to all the people who'd bought the book, as they received 30 free days trial membership to my member's area.(Yes, but YOU'RE running that surely - not your book packers/despatchers who had "had their world turned upside down."

Now I'm very happy with the way things are going, and I'm about to release an incredible special report in the
member's area which my marketing people BEGGED me NOT to give away for free because they feel it could be sold for a substantial sum of money. (What about the book, though ? You obviously haven't got competent admin in place for selling THAT yet, so it's a bit early to start plugging something else.)

I'm not going to give away the details here, all I'm going to say is that I am a TRUE expert in this field and when you
learn these secrets this is the easiest and (once you know how) often the cheapest way to raise *cash* instantly.
I know because I have used this method MANY times to raise money to finance property myself! (But wait a minute ... you said you were a multi-millionaire in 7 months ? Why on earth do you need to BORROW other people's money ? Surely you should be using your own, because it's cheaper?)

Anyway, everyone in my member's area will get a copy of this incredibly valuable report very soon - FREE of charge. And so will you if you're among the first to order a copy of my book next week when I re-launch it.(But I understand they PAY to join the Members' Area. Therefore nothing in that area is free. So the report is hardly free is it?)

LET ME WRAP UP
 
If you haven't read the first 5 chapters of my book yet then do so now..
http://www.propertyinvestmentsecrets.co.uk/5chapters/dl/

...and watch out for more emails from me over the next few days with details about how you can grab a copy (before the current print run sells out) when I re-launch next week. (Oh dear ! Under-ordered on the print run again, have you ? I'm sorry, but this really is a nonsense. Once the printing is set up, any decent printer could run off a further supply in a couple of days.)

Thanks and speak soon. (Yes, we will .... AFTER you supply me with a hardcopy of your sales pitch so that I can properly check out your claims in it via the ASA.  But I'm really starting to wonder why you are so quiet on that issue. Your claims are impressive, Andy. But the subsequent response to my "Prove It!" challenge is absolutely deafening ! Are you up for having your credentials independently confirmed ... or not?  If not, people will draw their own conclusions ... and they may not be very complimentary.)

Just thought I would add my two cents worth here.  I bought Andy’s book just before Christmas and was a member of his site for a while.  The book itself was o.k. but had very little actual quality content.  However if you are looking for motivation to get into making money from property it may well help you. 

His members only website is much the same.  It is made up of some great people, who are all trying to help each other, but the content is weak and most people are novice investors.  Well this was the case from December to about March when I was a member anyway, so really it needs the experienced ones such as Andy himself to offer advise – and it was just non-existent.   But in January when the site was still fairly new, things seemed different to what I hear now, then Andy would be replying to emails and posts.  He answered my questions on a number of occasions. 

However his site is way overpriced, which I think is a shame because my personal contact with him and his team has been positive but it is obvious that he has probably not done his research properly on this one and he always has one eye on making money – which is fine but you have to offer value for that money, and he is failing to fulfil some of the promises he has made. 

There is no question in my mind that the book was written to get you into the member’s only site and then to get you to spend £35,000 through his passive investments company.  Yet I still get the impression that he is not a bad guy, he likes to make money and he has got it all wrong here because he isn’t offering value for money and someone in his team needs to address this, if they could put this right and get him to deliver what he promised and tone down on the sales pitch and reduce the price of his forum to something more realistic and get some proper content on there – he would be unto a winner. 

But as long as he has got people around him who keep telling him -  “you are awesome and to ignore the disgruntled few because you will always get them when you put your name out in the public arena”  – he will be in grave danger of damaging his reputation to the point of no return. 

Anyway, that was actually about ten cents worth, but when you have something to say, you have to say it. 

Nicola said: I'm amazed when I read this stuff about Andy. Why do you all have such a problem with people making money? Nicola take a reality pill..its about the ethics. No one defends those that rip off the elderly by charging thousands for a £200 job. Criticising someone who charges £5,000 plus VAT for a 2 day course which can be bought for £300-600 is no different.

Why should anyone give their time and expertise away for free?  If I have to answer that then you need help.

(In my experience, the more you pay for tuition / coaching, the more likely you are to use that knowledge / support) Please share your experience.

Keep an open mind, and make up your own minds. Agree

Don't not read the book and take action because of a tiny few disgruntled folks. All the posts on this and other threads about Andy Shaw's course are negative (note that I actually recomended the book, and up until the course he was a 'good guy' in my eyes). The only positive posting is yours. For clarity do you receive any revenue/commision by advertising for Andy Shaw's services on your website? www.themoneygymclub.com

Finally, considering you're running a 1000 member forum all paying £27.50 each month and looking after members either paying £279.50 month (12 month min) or £1,118 month (3 month min) I'm amazed you have time to come on this forum.

You wouldn't be lifting content for your own would you - and not paying for it?

Another way of looking at it.....

When I, and it seems, others on here see a course for 5k, we think " I could invest that and make money, and spend time RESEARCHING forums and sites that will equally inspire us ! "

However, other people see it and think " That must be good. "

Andy has been a bit "cheeky" asking 5K. Not half as cheeky  as anyone who has paid 'bout 4.5-4.7K over the odds for one of these "WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE " courses, that comes on here and gets offended that we might point out the bleeddin' obvious !

Sorry for sounding heartless and opinionated, but I've been lazy- minded and  took shortcuts, but 5K...........5 bleedin' K. There is a difference between learning the ropes and expecting to be "spoon-fed" with information.

Glen Armstrong,  Rialto, Beware the sharks etc. Now that's value for money !

"5 bleedin' K"

Yes, well said spoony. As a newcomer to this SP forum, I was erring on the side of being a bit reserved for once. (That doesn't occur often !)

But your obvious astonishment matches mine. (Even Jay Abraham didn't charge THAT !)

Has anyone actually PAID this 5 grand and concluded it was great value ? (If so, they clearly don't come on here .... unless they're shy, or reluctant to admit they parted with 5 grand after all the negative comment. 

I really can't understand why Andy hasn't rushed to his computer and offered to send me a hardcopy of his sales pitch as requested so I can get ASA to check his claims out ........ or... hmmmmmmm ...maybe I can understand that ?