Singing Pig

I agree with the last two posts and will be voting Yes.

I joined the Roadshow conference call yesterday  - this was run very professionally by Barclays. The background is messy but a Yes vote will mean that many of the past issues are resolved. No doubt there will be difficulty in the current climate in raising any finance that is required to build out the developments but in other respects the investment decision now is probably clearer than the original decision to invest. This was an investment with a high risk but potentially a good return and I believe that this is probably still the case. I feel very sorry for investors in the two funds to be wound up but hope that the other funds may still prove to have been reasonable investments in the long term - even if there have been some sleepless nights along the way !  

I can't be sure that the investment will end up being a good one but I'm pretty sure that, from where we are now, a No vote would be the worst scenario.

Hi, my first post on singing pig or for that mater any other forum. Apologies if I get the protocol wrong ! I've been searching the internet recently because in late 2006 I' invested in two off plan properties via Ready 2 Invest - one in Elite Park, the other in Parkorman, both in Istanbul, with the same developer - Demo Insaat. Both projects completion dates put back again and again. Parkorman should have been completed in Dec 2007 - the latest date is now the end of 2008. Elite Park was originally due to complete in Dec 2008, it's now due late 2009. Obviously reading some of the previous posts I'm becoming concerned whether the developments will ever complete. Has anyone else invested in these two developments or Turkey in general? 

Mark Fitton

Given the opportunity to attend the Road shows, or either of the two tele conferences, only an unsophisticated investor, unfortunate enough to come into this world minus a couple of frontal lobes would be foolish enough to vote No. There is no urgent requirement to promote a Yes vote as this should be blazingly obvious. However, the inherent slothful nature of investors combined with the unusually high 75% threshold requirement for a successful YES vote means ALL INVESTORS MUST TAKE A LARGE BREATH GET OUT OF BED REALLY EARLY, TICK THE BOX, LICK THE ENVELOPE AND DRAG ONE FOOT PAST THE OTHER FOR 10 MINUTES TO POST BY IMMEDIATE RETURN. Otherwise the whole party ends with liquidation solely because of lazy voters. Believe me BW will most likely be very definitely stressing this point and deservedly so.

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Regarding my previous postings referring to Craig Cameron & Jonathan Crossick I regret none of it. My sole aim is to warn off any individual unfortunate enough to be currently considering investing any of their money in any of the projects that seem to be morphing out of their offices on a fortnightly to monthly basis. STAY WELL CLEAR 

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Regarding the potential of my previous postings to influence potential issuers of mezzanine debt at PDC level, or other established third party interests..............I somehow very much doubt it. I would hazard a guess such potential lenders would be using a shade more discretion in their DD than any of us have demonstrated !!! In any event the SPV boards will ( if re-structuring succeeds) be required to tender and select capable managers at this level to move site specifics forward, when PDC liquidity issues are resolved.

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 It was inferred to the fund investors that there were ' no documented records kept at SPV company level ' and applying this over 6 projects in three separate countries is a wondrously serious indication of the complete lack of governance by either of this hapless pair ( OR ESPECIALLY EQUITY TRUST ) and strong recommendation to any individual, party, investment entity to turn 180 degrees, run over the nearest hill and as far away as possible with anything connected to Jonty/Alise Crossick or Craig Cameron. I see potential every day, but this does not automatically award me the capabilties to see such opportunites to successful fruition, if my skill set does not exist in the particular realm required. Aspiring to these qualities through clever marketing in any situation is not enough. Judging by the conveyor belt of bull sh*t coming out on regular basis from Brighton, Mr Crossick does not appear to be reigning in his ambitions nor attempting to curtail his protrayal as an accomplished international mover and shaker within the spheres of property development.

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However, some should be VERY THANKFUL TO MR JONATHAN CROSSICK  for the unexpected and beneficial, unintended consequence, that by default through his and his associates cack handed delays, they may be owners of shares tied to UNDEVELOPED LAND unburdened with debt, and now offered the potential options to sell as is, or proceed pending feasabilities.

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I am optimistic for the remaining surviving projects, isofar once proper structures are agreed, consistent management agents established and current self serving buffoons removed, progress will be seen.

MM

morning molly

Excellent news it seems we agree on most things ,

1   vote Yes

2   there is a resonable prospect of these investments maturing and not being dead

3   Equity Trust have cocked up

Where we disagree is on not trying to wreck this moving forward, I cant see the point of trying to torpedo your own investment whatever your motives in trying to save other people. The jury is still out on these investments there is still a chance although lessening in todays climate that they could provide a  decent profit.

The investment world is on its head and that is not the fault of anybody we are concerned with.Maybe people did bite of more than they could chew but that is the nature of this kind of investment as far as Im concerned.

To the poster asking about delays,  Most builds get delayed for one thing or an other and in the past with off plans (see my previous post) , this wasnt to much of an issue as we were in a rising market with the value rising in relation to your gearing.

However things have changed, if you wanted the units for yourself as holiday homes then there is no problem if they are investments then there could be ( again see my previos post)

I however know nothing about Turkey and will leave it to others to add more, surrfice to say the whole BTL investment vehicle has definatly lost its wheels.

 

Have  a nice day all

mark

Hi Phil

If you read the entire thread you will find some posts from me and others who have invested with R2i in Turkey, there is someone with Elite Park. Also see this thread on Overseas Property Forum where ADAA is also with Elite Park.

http://www.totallyproperty.com/turkey-property/8870-developer-bankruptcy.html#post65029

Regards, SS 

PS Am going to start R2i Turkey thread. 

Hi SunnyS

Will your thread be discussing any particular R2i turkey or just the whole flock in general !!!    

Investor 13 - the entire gaggle!!

Mark Fitton

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Yes things have changed and this is why I am so utterly exasperated by fools like Crossick/Cameron churning out crap and sucking deposit money from all and sundry, especially the naive. My comments will torpedo diddly squat as everyone out there is a little wiser to value now, regarding these eastern European Funds. But a torpedo to Brighton R2I offices would help. I cannot believe the drivel coming into my inbox from R2I of late.

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In case my posts appear to be rather needlessly aggressive and ill informed I would like to add that I do have a small semblance of knowledge and the link below is by no means self congratulatory, but an indication that it is always wise to consider the comments of others ( especially if they differ from your own ).

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http://www.streetwisepublications.co.uk/forum2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4898

MM