Singing Pig

Essex34Uk, we did have a thread called developer bankruptcy, but that seems to have been deleted, in the meantime see this thread, the person you are looking for is ADAA. 

http://www.totallyproperty.com/turkey-property/6887-sandalet-turkbuku.html

I have just read all through this thread with interest

There are a lot of bitter people out there who seem intent on blaming other people for mistakes they may have made ( ie investing with R2I).

Anyone who thinks this was a straight forward investment that would return them large profits without risk whilst sitting on thier backsides and letting someone else do all the work, now has there chickens coming home to roost.

I am an investor in two of these projects and whilst not delighted at the outcome can at least understand  the problems that have been encountered with the regulators. Whilst as I am sure Jonty would agree we are not in the best shape the future will look a lot better if the current roadshows produce a yes vote.

Bleating about getting your money back is not helpfull and patently not going to happen and why should it ? you should have read the prospectus then thought no and put your money in a building society. You would still have lost it only it would have taken longer with inflation and tax.

Incedently this is my real name and I am not a plant as previous posters have suggested at previous posts.

As an experienced investor (which we all signed up to being) I invested knowing the risks, there is only one, you could lose all your money, never look at the upside always the downside.

From what I have seen and conversations with jonty I really feel that he has acted in the best way possible given the situation, to his credit he has stood up and answered his critics and remained positive which he will have to be to make a success of these projects.

I really think that the people chucking the mud about should have the courage to come out from behind there annonimity.

I urge all real investors out there to vote yes to the proposals put forward by barclays wealth, so that we can all move forward, who knows by the time any of these are built if they ever are, we might be back in a property boom. and sitting on a profit.

As a last thought if we do lose money its not all bad, as experienced investors there is always CGT relief to help out with the profits we have made elsewhere.

I look forward to all the snipping that is to come .

mark

There are alot more of us disgruntled R2i investors here than just the Trusts people. I think that people may have agreed with you intitially, it was just bad timing, bad economies, unforseen delays etc, but with the wonder of forums and actually all being able to talk to each other and seeing that other R2i investments have also turned sour, surely your suspicions must be raised about the company's abiities to produce a good investment?

 As for anonimity, I'm sure we're only on here saying what we have personally told R2i in phonecalls and letters. Who would be on here pretending to have lost money? And as for the bitching, personally its the only release I get from the stress of potentially losing £100k, I would much however prefer to be like you and not mind losing my investment!

I am one of the investors in the Obzor fund and Jonty and his outfit has been unscrupulous and totally irresponsible as to what they have done to the fund which has now led to its closure.

As one Obzor investor had pointed out earlier that there were only 12 of us which I had found out after the fund was emptied out. When I was sold into the fund I was LIED to by jonty's saleperson by being told the fund was almost fully subscribed - far from the truth.

To buy the land Jonty had gotten a loan from an entity/investor who had the charge on the land as well. The Obzor fund was emptied of its 300000 + euros or so just to pay interest to the outfit that had lent the money to the SPV (to buy the land).

Then as R2I had gotten further demands from the investor who wanted to sell the land to recoup their money Jonty had started to sell property in the Obzor development without consent from equity trust and without any planning/development permission. This is when equity trust realised that matters have gone too far and sacked R2I as the property manager.

Given the circumstances the Obzor investors should have been informed right from the start (and told the truth) that this development was not viable as a result of lack of funds. Jonty has been verbally promising for the last 2 years that he will either return the money back to the investors/ given shares in the Arkoutino fund - but he had never put anything in writing - and hopefully now the courts have looked into this Jonty will have to abide by their decision. What should really be an option though is to return the original investment amount to the investors as the funds should have never been taken from the investors in the first place

mark,

Accepting you might lose everything makes you more of speculator (big risk - chance of big profits/losses) than an investor. I suspect most people suckered in to R2I thought they were investing; there is a difference. Incidentally when R2R/R2I first launched I got their prospectus (glossy brochure). Decided too much froth, unsubstantiated claims, no exit strategy and selling teddy bears isn't quite the same as selling overseas property. Jonty profited from people naively believing property anywhere was a one way street. He was way out of his depth early on, in my opinion. How he had the nerve to hold seminars on investing overseas, when not one of his ventures seems to have turned a profit is the height of arrogance (or criminal, depending on your viewpoint). As for Barclays wealth roadshows, who is paying ?. Rhetorical question. Rather like the alleged villa being built in Morocco.

Here we go its warming up nicely and I appreciate the civil tone of the replies,

Firstly buying a house is an investment and I would not expect to potentially lose all my investment, incedently this is what I do for a living and I have retired on rents I recieve.

This whole buy to let industry that grew up over the last 6 years was always a bubble that was going to burst with companies getting people to remortgae at 90% and all the nonsense that has gone on. Though this will upset people,as I said before it was basically people expecting to get rich quick and sit on their backsides letting someone else do all the work. To get rich you have to do it slowly and work work work. Then work some more.

Indeed I got sucked in and bought two off plans in spain and lost 40k by not completing. So im as big a mug as anybody else frankly.

However Ive not gone off complaining and mudslinging , I make my decisions not anybody else if I get it right I dont complain and if I get it wrong I dont complain its my mistake.

Timing is everything in most things and anybody who has got in in the last four years has missed the boat ,the time this time round was to get in in 92. Next year will also be good.

Back to jonty as far as Im concerned he is guilty as hell of bad timing but that is it.

Forensic accountants have gone through everything, there is absolutly no evidence of fraud , there has been no breach of the prospectus no money has gone missing or been paid to the crossicks let alone enough to buy a villa.

Indeed they have lodged money with the court to pay for the work that has been carried out  and have had their share diluted

Unit holders have not paid for anything including the road shows and there has been no dilution of our units with anything that has gone on.

GO TO THE ROADSHOWS OR THE CONFERENCE CALLS TODAY IF ANYBODY DOSENT BELIEVE ME

This is not my opinion but the proffesionals at grant thornton and barclays wealth,

Frankly I fail to see what more they ( the crossicks) can do in this situation, They havent disappeared , they havent stolen anything and they dont have peoples money to give back they never had it in the first place. They are doing everything to keep this in play.

Bringing me nicely back to the first point , If anybody thought this wasnt a high risk play but an investment then they  are not experiencd investors and shouldnt have signed to say they were.

The land that was lost is also not a complete disaster as the unit holders will be offered shares in arkatino can you imagine a big company doing that . Well I cant.

Again I urge all people that are invested to listen to the facts as provided by the experts at barclays wealthy and grant thornton and not the mud slinging on here. These investments are not dead and could still provide an exit statergy but only if we all get together and vote YES.

As a last point I am not in a position to comment about any other investment from ready to invest as I am not involved in any.

regards to you all

mark

Investors in the funds for arkoutino, montenegro and croatia should remember that whatever has gone before regarding the management of the funds, it is the present that is of the upmost importance with regards to the outcome of your investments.

Whatever we decide to do it will be the jersey royal courts that will decide the future of the funds and no amount of looking back and pointing fingers will help our cause. The only thing we can do is to influence the court in their decision by voting on the proposals.

In summary:

NO to the proposals would result in the court deciding to wind up all the funds which would have the likely result of the investor incurring a significant loss, for the following reasons:

Significant extra costs would have to be incurred by the funds in order to wind them up, these would include a €600000 charge by equity trust and the costs of employing an administrator to liquidate the funds which, given the absence of any shareholder agreement, would be complicated, time consuming and thus very expensive. On top of this the value at which the land could be sold would not necessarily be at present market value and could well be lower.

YES to the proposals would result in  equity trust waiving their fees of €600000, the funds receiving payments from the FSTs ,and an implementation of a shareholders agreement which would mean the the funds could go forward.

 Given the independent appraisal of the individual sites made by colliers international which indicates that there is a real possibility of each project making significant returns it would seem that this would be the best way forward. It should also be remembered that if the funds are allowed to continue there will always be the possibility that profits could be made before the end of the 2012, (the proposed life of the restructured funds), if a early sale of the land is deemed in our best interests, as could be the case with montnegro.

Putting it simply, voting NO would result in the investors losing the major part of their investment whilst a YES vote would give the real possibility of a return of our original investment and perhaps profits.

This is not the time to regret what has happened in the past but rather to consider and understand the reality of the present.

mornig all

thats two of us now on this post supporting the proposals and seeing things as they actually are, not inuendo and rumour.

Come on guys all the actuall investors in these trusts need to make sure we get a yes vote. Its time to put away all the bad feeling and move forward so we can all recoup as much as possible, its still very possible there is a profit out there for the taking.

You must also consider that we are minority shareholders as per the prospectus, as such, more finance needs to be raised, though the trusts themselves are closed, This is why posts slamming Cameron and cameron for trying to raise funding in to the PDC's are not helping and actually doing enormous damage to the future ability of raising the finance to take this forward.

Molly muppet if you are an investor you need to think seriously about what you are doing here. If you are an investor I fail to see what you are hoping to achieve by these posts.

All investors must get the new proposals and see the facts, there is then only one way to vote.

If anyone supports this position please post so we can get some balance here

Regards

mark